15:48 Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD)

We have the absurdity that the more carbon that someone emits, the cheaper it becomes to travel, and the less carbon that someone emits, the more expensive it becomes to travel. All three major parties have agreed to a target of cutting carbon emissions by 80 per cent. by 2050. If we are seriously committed to tackling climate change transport must play its part, and we must recognise that financial incentives and disincentives will determine what people do. If it is cheaper to get into the car to go from A to B, people will get in the car. That is the logical response of any individual. So what are the Government going to do to try to ensure that there is more of a relationship between the carbon emitted in transport and the cost of travelling? At the moment, the situation is humpty-dumpty and upside-down and creates all sorts of perverse incentives.

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16:14 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Chris Mole)

Is not the reality that the unregulated fares are not competitive with other modes of travel, as was pointed out by the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker)? The cost of car travel has decreased in the past 10 years and the cost of rail travel has increased. If we are to reduce congestion on the roads and the impact of climate change, we must tackle the matter as a country. It is not just about competitiveness within the industry. It is a far broader question.

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