16:38 Jamie Stone (Liberal Democrat)

The current climate emergency demands that we act fast to mitigate the fatal consequences for our natural world, and one way we should do that is by making man-made environments energy-efficient. There are also concerns about the fragility of heritage sites and doubts about their long-term existence.

However, as I said at the outset, the climate emergency poses a challenge to the survival of estates and calls into question their long-term existence. Despite being sustainable partners who view decarbonisation as crucial to the preservation of heritage for future generations, custodians of listed buildings face practical barriers, which I am afraid to say include current planning permission and listed building consent, both of which inhibit the pursuit of net zero targets. For example, energy performance certificates use a metric of cost, as opposed to carbon. That often encourages the installation of new fossil-fuel boilers, rather than green alternatives such as solar panels, in listed buildings.

Furthermore, listed building consent adds delay, expertise and, indeed, hassle to the process of installing any energy-efficiency measures in listed buildings—even those with minimal impact on their historic fabric. I would suggest that the regulations are flawed and that they lead to the slow and difficult uptake of energy-efficiency measures. These houses were built to last, but the Government must allow them to adapt and change as necessary. Planning frameworks need to provide support for the implementation of sensitive energy-efficiency measures in a way that reflects the climate emergency.

Greater investment in renewable energy in off-grid rural communities is imperative, particularly in my constituency and other rural constituencies, because it would lower renewable fuel costs and increase self-sufficiency. That way, green energy projects in the heritage sector could be integrated into their surrounding communities. Reviewed planning frameworks must ensure that buildings are repaired and adapted in energy-efficient ways, not demolished. In short, heritage protections must be maintained and prioritised in future reviews of planning policies. We must put sustainability at the forefront of our thinking.

The point I want to make is simply this: the climate crisis is growing ever more urgent and we need to start taking tourism and heritage more seriously. We can do that by recognising this historic environment as part of the solution to achieving net zero. I suggest that tourism has for too long been treated as second rate—an afterthought to bigger, more important issues. We are talking about people’s livelihoods, the preservation of our national identity and, indeed, the very existence of our planet as somewhere we can live and work for many years to come—these are no small feats.

That is why I join the voices that have been calling on the Government to support heritage sites that are committed to net zero targets by publishing a review of the planning and regulatory reforms that face listed buildings. The survival of our country’s heritage requires a supportive regulatory framework, and we need it as soon as is humanly possible. I look forward to hearing the contributions of other Members present, and I thank them for attending the debate.

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16:57 Nia Griffith (Labour)

If a building is commercially viable, it will be snapped up, and there will be plenty of options—it can be done up for flats or whatever—but so many of these buildings are not in that category. The costs of renovation far outweigh any easy profit for commercial investors, so the buildings remain there until local volunteers get together, start raising money, including through grant funding, and make a business plan that stacks up. It is very important that they can show that the building is sustainable. In our case, we have gone for a mixture of commercial and business start-ups, plus community and educational use. We are already bringing in schools and showing the children material about Llanelli’s industrial heritage. For us, putting on solar panels is extremely important, because we want to tackle climate change. Every level of Government—the UK Government, the Welsh Government and the local county council, which is the local planning authority—has professed its commitment to getting to net zero. We have a huge south-facing roof, which is not visible from the front of the building—from the road, where people go in. The building backs on to the railway; somebody has to be right over the other side of the railway to see that part of the roof.

We were concerned not only to tackle climate change, but to make the building more viable and save on running costs, all the more so given that energy costs have soared recently. However, our local planning authority conservation officer has been adamant that the guidance will not permit solar panels. It was strange; they would not contemplate the modern solar panels that we liked, which look so much like slates that it is hardly possible to tell the difference. We were told that we had to have the ones that stand proud. I can understand the theory, which is that restoration to the original would be required; that might be the reasoning. Anyway, neither option is apparently acceptable, and we have been flatly refused permission to put solar panels on the roof.

This is a listed building that we want to be preserved and to look as it has looked. It is an industrial building, and we want to move with the times. We want to use technologies that are up to date, as the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross mentioned, just as the builders used the technologies of their day. We want to conserve the building and preserve the planet. We want to contribute to tackling climate change, and make the building more viable.

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17:06 Alistair Carmichael (Liberal Democrat)

The other threat to all built heritage, of whatever age, is climate change. We see that manifesting itself in so many different ways. Skara Brae on Orkney has been listed as a site that, because of its sheer location, is particularly vulnerable to the threat of climate change. It would be an absolute tragedy for our country if we were to lose such a site. I would like to see our Government in Scotland and the UK Government in Westminster come up with a more strategic and co-ordinated approach to ensure that these very important sites are maintained for future generations.

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17:15 Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)

The development and redevelopment of such sites is rarely, at least in the first instance, a purely commercial endeavour. Many heritage sites rely on charitable giving or funding from grant-making organisations, not least the National Lottery Heritage Fund, and from statutory bodies. The Charles Rennie Mackintosh Society, which marks its 50th anniversary this year, has received support from Historic Environment Scotland and has maintained and developed Mackintosh church at Queen’s Cross in Glasgow North as an attraction in its own right and as a venue for performances, weddings and other events. Currently, it is hosting Luke Jerram’s famous Gaia installation, last seen in Glasgow at COP26, where of course we were all encouraged, as the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross rightly said at the start, to think about how we tackle climate change and work towards reaching net zero targets.

In Glasgow’s west end, the Arlington Baths Club, of which I am a member, benefited from lottery heritage funding in the past. This recognised its value not only to the club’s members, but to the wider public. The facility is used by schools and is open throughout the year to those who wish to learn more about the building’s architecture and history. It is also a good example of how sites can adapt to a changing climate while becoming more sustainable at the same time. It recently produced a very ambitious plan to reach net zero. It will reduce carbon emissions, which is good for all of us, but also save money through energy efficiency and local generation. Supporting such projects should not just be seen as some sort of nice to have or luxury extra by Governments. Investing in heritage sites pays dividends for both the economy and wider society, and failure to invest results in either long-term maintenance costs or costs associated with the loss or even the destruction of assets.

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17:20 Jeff Smith (Labour)

Like all sectors, there is a need to reduce carbon emissions as we transition to net zero. By their nature, heritage buildings are often old and inefficient. According to Historic England, improving the energy efficiency of historic properties could reduce emissions from the UK’s buildings by 5% a year and generate £35 billion for the economy, while making those buildings warmer and cheaper to run. Grosvenor’s recent research shows that retrofitting just half of pre-1919 homes in the next decade could lead to a saving of around £3.4 billion worth of CO 2 reductions by 2050. Keeping historic buildings in use—adapting instead of demolishing them—is one of the most impactful things that can be done to lower carbon emissions and reduce waste.

These sites are vulnerable to risks beyond the climate crisis. During the pandemic, without a steady income stream from visitors and events, they immediately fell into difficulty, with repairs and maintenance projects cancelled. The backlog of repairs and maintenance projects will now cost around £2 billion. I would like to flag that work on historic buildings is currently subject to 20% VAT, but no VAT at all is charged on work on new buildings. Does the Minister agree that that creates a perverse incentive to pursue the most carbon intensive option, which is to demolish and rebuild rather than to repair?

As my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith) said, our under-resourced and often painfully slow planning system does not help either. Trying to upgrade listed buildings or buildings in conservation areas with things such as solar panels, window efficiency works and heat pumps is difficult. Some 87% of respondents to a Historic Houses survey believed that the planning system was a block to their efforts to decarbonise the buildings in their care.

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17:25 Stuart Andrew (Conservative)

The Government-funded high street heritage action zones programme shows the positive return from heritage-focused investment, with over 171,000 square metres of public realm improved in 65 high streets. By ensuring that historic sites remain at the heart of our communities, we create great places to live, work and visit, making an area more attractive to visitors and locals alike. Heritage can also bring joy to people’s lives. It improves quality of life and brings a sense of wellbeing, helping to meet major challenges of ill health and social care and our wider environmental and climate goals. It is therefore imperative to ensure that the sector remains sustainable and able to deliver these positive effects.

A number of Members have mentioned financial sustainability. It goes without saying that the heritage sector, like many others, is still feeling the impact of the period of upheaval and disruption. The pandemic, and more recently cost of living pressures, have contributed to a challenging time for many organisations, which are still rebuilding their financial sustainability and finding ways to make ends meet. Our precious heritage sites continue to need routine but vital conservation work, as the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith) mentioned, and financial sustainability is needed not just in the wake of the pandemic and the cost of living pressures but so that they can adapt to a changing digital world and meet the challenges of a net zero carbon agenda. We need to look to the future and at financial resilience. There is much that needs to be done.

Climate change was rightly raised by a number of Members. Heritage has a unique role to play in wider environmental sustainability. Our natural and historic environments are inextricably interlinked and by protecting one we can benefit the other. We need to maximise the potential of heritage to drive wider environmental goals around biodiversity, protecting habitat and sustainably managing our rural environment.

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